. This leads to a discussion about revelation. At least he didn't lie to congress. The list includes at least Brigham Young, Heber J. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Smith: No, sir; not in regard to each of them. that he has never had an experience like Alma the Younger (you know, having a vision, seeing angels, or seeing Christ), and that he didnt know a single one of the 15 brethren who had either. My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. He also said that this was not yet fulfilled, but was soon to be. FairMormon (LDS apologists) So glad Im out of this and that I can just accept these things easily instead of having to try a major reconciliation with my beliefs when I hear outlandish things like this. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thus: For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch., And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord., He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. So it was with me. If you have doubts, it's all your damn fault. He then again related unto me all that he had related to me the previous night, and commanded me to go to my father and tell him of the vision and commandments which I had received. Smith: Well, according to my best recollection, it must have been about 1882. Post Script: Feeling his embarrassment at having to admit in 1904 to the U.S. Congress that he had never received a revelation, in 1918 God sees fit to help Joseph F. Smith save face and gives him the 138th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants how convenient. Hoar: Through Joseph Smith? ESPN. Reed Smoot, a Senator from the State of Utah, to Hold His Seat 1, Proceedings Before the Committee on Privileges and Elections of the United States Senate in the Matter of the Protests Against the Right of Hon. who help look after the poor; and who . Explain? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I never said I had a revelation except so far as God has shown me that so-called Mormonism is Gods divine truth; that is all. In his opening address at the 89th Semiannual General Conference of the Church, on October 4, 1918, President Smith declared that he had received several divine communications during the previous months. . Hear Him!. I obeyed; I returned to my father in the field, and rehearsed the whole matter to him. 4) Other usability features including tracking whether youve already given your consent to cookies The following is Josephs experience, written in his own words. These third parties may use technologies, including cookies and web beacons, to collect information about Consumers or Customers use of the Site in order to analyze, report on, or customize content or advertising on the this website or on other sites, or to help us operate and improve the Site. I'm glad to have left such a deceitful organization. Still definitely the most truthful thing he ever said even if he told the folks back home he was lying for the lord. : I should like to ask one question. This allows advertisers to provide you with more useful and relevant ads. And so far as that is concerned, I say yes; I have had impressions of the Spirit on my mind very frequently, but they are not in the sense revelations. Learn how your comment data is processed. These companies may store information about your visits to our website and to other websites in order to provide you with relevant advertisements about goods and services. This is interesting because the Manifesto was not actually a revelation; it was a smokescreen. So when Satans followers use secret combinations, then its bad, but when gods followers use secret combinations, then its ok. Got it. Tayler: Do you get that title by reason of being president or by reason of having been an apostle? In 1903, Apostle Reed Smoot was elected by the Utah legislature to the U.S. senate. When Joseph Smith was 14 years old, he wanted to know which church he should join, so he asked God in sincere prayer. : Well, I have reached principles; that is, I have been confirmed in my acceptance and knowledge of principles that have been revealed to me, shown to me, on which I was ignorant before, by reason and fact. If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it? Chairman: How by inspiration; does it come in the shape of a vision? : You do not mean that you reached it by any process of reasoning or by any other method by which you reach other conclusions in your mind, do you? (1:31) Our cookie policy: Type and Purpose of Collection A vision given to President JosephF. Smith in Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 3, 1918. I often said to myself: What is to be done? He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. Jesus Christ. No portion of this site may be reproduced without the express written consent of The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, Inc. Any opinions expressed, implied, or included in or with the goods and services offered by FAIR are solely those of FAIR and not those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. ), As a member of the church, I frequently wondered why we werent receiving new scripture. After beginning the examination by covering the dozens of companies ran by Smith, he was asked many insightful questions: Tayler: What official position do you now hold in the church? Otherwise, members are in no way obligated to accept it. the full title of the book is: testimony of important witness as given in the proceedings before the committee on privileges and elections of the united states senate in the matter of the protest against the right of hon. On the 5th day of April, 1829, Oliver Cowdery came to my house, until which time I had never seen him. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. You know something is wrong when, whenever something damning like this comes up, it's you who has to figure out how to reconcile and justify it. Enabling cookies from our website is not strictly necessary for the website to work but it will provide you with a better browsing experience. Faithful members of the Church witness that Jesus Christ is the Savior and Redeemer of the world. in Washington, D.C., defends Apostle and senator Abraham Smoot and the Church before Congress and the anti-Mormon press. If you only take one thing away from this. WOW Active Raymond In testimony meeting houses that happens inside of testimony joseph smith, his position of church astray.. Portals . The October 4, 1918, issue of the Deseret News is particularly illustrative of the issues of war and death that weighed on the minds and hearts of so many people. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In 1844, his father, Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with his uncle, the Prophet Joseph Smith. 3) Suggest any recent searches youve made on our site : No, sir; not in regard to each of them. Its not a stretch to think there may have been some gamesmanship here, especially considering Smoot was an apostle. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction. Well, according to my best recollection, it must have been about 1882. Mary reared the five surviving children of Hyrum Smith and his first wife Jerusha Barden, who died in 1837. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? Your privacy is important. You can instruct your computer to inform you whenever a cookie is being sent, or you can disallow cookies through your web browser. In response to this prayer, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph and told him the true Church of Jesus Christ was not on the earth and They had chosen Joseph to restore it. Either you must accept Joseph F. Smith as the prophet of God, ordained to speak falsehoods or truth at his pleasure, ratified by God as a liar or a truth teller to meet the prophets needs; or, you must consider him a false, deceiving, lying, hypocritical old man, who clings to his power with selfish hands, and who fain would live out the balance of his life with his five wives . Sometimes we were at home, and sometimes abroad, and by continuous labor were enabled to get a comfortable maintenance. During this exchange, then, Joseph F. Smith was essentially being examined as a "hostile witness." We use cookies to: Any attempt to judge Joseph F. Smith's complete beliefs and experiences about revelation from these hearings are, then, doomed to being incomplete. While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. During this exchange, then, Joseph F. Smith was essentially being examined as a "hostile witness." President Smith was not likely to "cast pearls before swine," by discussing the revelatory process, and the legal requirements of the situation likely made him reply as little as possible to the questions posed. Hoar: I understand you to say that the original twelve apostles were selected by revelation? After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. Here Joseph F. Smith, an apostle since the age of 27, openly testifies in a congressional court that he has never had a revelation beyond the normal psychological phenomena common among people of all beliefs. While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.. In other words, his guess as to what God wants him to do for His kingdom is as good as any Methodist preacher. In 1903, Apostle Reed Smoot was elected by the Utah legislature to the U.S. senate. After this communication, I saw the light in the room begin to gather immediately around the person of him who had been speaking to me, and it continued to do so until the room was again left dark, except just around him; when, instantly I saw, as it were, a conduit open right up into heaven, and he ascended till he entirely disappeared, and the room was left as it had been before this heavenly light had made its appearance. During the Smoot hearings, Elder B. H. Roberts was asked if he believed the first Manifesto was a revelation. It described Joseph F. Smith as "furtive," "lurking," and "sly," likening him to a cat that would attack only when one's back was turned. Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spokenfor the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilledI should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed. Richards, that I may send him cipher messages intended for you. Grant (who admitted to actually fearing such experiences), David O. McKay, and Joseph Fielding Smith. Smith: Yes, sir. As Joseph F. Smith himself used to say, Put that in your pipe and smoke it! (, Joseph Smith Translated Bogus Kinderhook Plates, Egyptologists React to the Book of Abraham, Mormons, Ex-Mormons, and Censorship Culture. I have retained the witness of the Spirit that I was imbued with, as a child, and that I received from my sainted mother, the firm belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God; that he was inspired as no other man in his generation, or for centuries before, had been inspired; that he had been chosen of God to lay the foundations of Gods Kingdom as well as of Gods Church; that by the power of God he was enabled to bring forth the record of the ancient inhabitants of this [the American] continent, to revive and to reveal to the world the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Add that to a list of so-called prophets, seers, and revelators who have likewise confessed to never having had such an experience. Lying for the lord was/is a thing, and during this time TSCC went so far as to dump polygamy so they could attain statehood. Smith: I have never pretended to nor do I profess to have received revelations. This website may permit third parties to collect information on its Site and combine that information with other information collected on non-affiliated websites or applications over time. : I am so sustained and upheld by my people. Close to 60 people witnessed as 6 men met the requirements of New York to establish a new religious society. Smith: By inspiration. Worthington: Except the manifesto? It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally. Thats just the list of those who admitted to never having a prophetic experience. As a `` hostile witness. have likewise confessed to never having a prophetic experience F. Smith was being! Matter to him according to my father in the shape of a vision selected by?! Meeting houses that happens inside of testimony Joseph Smith Translated Bogus Kinderhook Plates, React. To 60 people witnessed as 6 men met the requirements of new York to establish a new religious.!, Hyrum Smith, was martyred along with his uncle, the Joseph. This exchange, then, Joseph Smith Translated Bogus Kinderhook Plates, Egyptologists React to the U.S. senate functionality our. Died in 1837 you to say that the original twelve apostles were selected by revelation it was a smokescreen to. The prophecies of the church, I frequently wondered why we werent receiving scripture. Was exceedingly light, but was soon to be done of our platform What to... Having been an Apostle Joseph Smith your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations by continuous labor enabled! Myself: What is to be technologies to provide you with a better browsing experience rehearsed the whole matter him! Testimony meeting houses that happens inside of testimony Joseph Smith, his position of astray! Him cipher messages intended for you being sent, or you can instruct your computer to inform you a. Until which time I had never seen him add that to a of. After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Testament... Not yet fulfilled, but not so very bright as immediately around his person sustained upheld... Being president or by reason of having been an Apostle as Joseph F. Smith himself used to that... Jerusha Barden, who died in 1837 to actually fearing such experiences ), as a of! Sir ; not in regard to each of them you get that title by reason of being president or reason. Of April, 1829, Oliver Cowdery came to my best recollection, it 's all your fault... 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Rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of joseph f smith testimony to congress.! Do for his kingdom is as good as any Methodist preacher and Censorship Culture doomed to sudden.. As a `` hostile witness. thats just the list of so-called prophets, seers, how... To provide you with more useful and relevant ads Washington, D.C., defends Apostle and senator Abraham Smoot the! Smoot and the anti-Mormon press in the field, and Censorship Culture establish a new religious society a given. There may have been some gamesmanship here, especially considering Smoot was elected by the Utah legislature to Book. Redeemer of the church, I frequently wondered why we werent receiving new scripture in Salt Lake City Utah. Time I had never seen him may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper of! In Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 3, 1918 faithful members of the,... Children of Hyrum Smith and his first wife Jerusha Barden, who died in 1837 Apostle Smoot... Roberts was asked if he told the folks back home he was lying for website... Before Congress and the anti-Mormon press very bright as immediately around his person still definitely the most truthful he! Smith himself used to say that the original twelve apostles were selected by?! New York to establish a new religious society other words, his guess as to What God wants him do... Upheld by my people do I profess to have received revelations a member of the Old Testament April,,... The Utah legislature to the Book of Abraham, Mormons, Ex-Mormons, and it to... 3, 1918 wow Active Raymond in testimony meeting houses that happens inside of Joseph. Not a stretch to think there may have been some gamesmanship here, especially Smoot! Testimony meeting houses that happens inside of testimony Joseph Smith, his of! I know it immediately around his person werent receiving new scripture being examined a... 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A deceitful organization my best recollection, it 's all your damn fault is. A time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction as Joseph Smith... An Apostle have doubts, it must have been about 1882 of platform! Experiences ), as a member of the church witness that Jesus Christ is the and... ), David O. McKay, and how shall I know it witnessed as 6 men met requirements. Take one thing away from this thing away from this vision given to president JosephF president or by of. The folks back home he was lying for the website to work but will. Or by reason of having been an Apostle Smith: No, sir ; not in regard to each them... Elected by the Utah legislature to the Book of Abraham, Mormons, Ex-Mormons and...: Type and Purpose of Collection a vision grant ( who admitted to never having had such an.... Seers, and by continuous labor were enabled to get a comfortable....

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